Dragon and Richards vs. Cape Fear, Plus Next Title Defense

Pro Wrestling Guerrilla Discussion

Moderators: PWG_Silverback, PWGTickets

Dragon and Richards vs. Cape Fear, Plus Next Title Defense

Postby CheMateo » Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:29 pm

I thought the Tag Title Match between Dragon and Richards vs. Cape Fear was match of night. Anybody agree or disagree? Plus it was great seeing Dragon pour that soda over that guy! The next title defense seems really great against AJ Styles and Daniels. However I have not been too impressed with Daniels in his last few matches in PWG. Don't get me wrong he isn't Petey Williams but nothing has really stood out to me. What do you folks think? Also do you think we will have new tag champs or will the awesome reign of Super Dragon and Davey Richards continue?
User avatar
CheMateo
 
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Farmington Dist. L.A.

Postby SoCalAndy » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:11 pm

There is some stuff I'm worried about. One is how Daniels would be willing to take Dragon and Davey's offense and if he's going to step up his game. He's been in cruise control lately and doesn't seem to take much high impact moves. Two is Dragon and Daniels wrestling eachother. Their previous matches with eachother where underwelming, and Daniels and Dragon's styles don't seem to mesh up well. I'm sure AJ will do great with Dragon and Davey as he always seems willing to take some stiff offense in PWG.

I'm sure Dragon and Davey will look great, AJ could step up his game but Daniels is the only element of this match I'm not excited about. Dragon and Davey do well as dickheads who enjoy punishing their opponents, but with two TNA guys who always seem to get booked strongly in other promotions and rarely lose cleanly it seems that the match is going to be different. I enjoy matches where Dragon seems to be the mastermind behind the match and seems to be the one putting together matches, and I hope he will be putting this together as opposed to Daniels or Styles who probably don't know how to work with Davey.
SoCalAndy
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:00 am
Location: Pasadena, California

Postby astro_zombie » Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:33 pm

SoCalAndy wrote:There is some stuff I'm worried about. One is how Daniels would be willing to take Dragon and Davey's offense and if he's going to step up his game. He's been in cruise control lately and doesn't seem to take much high impact moves. Two is Dragon and Daniels wrestling eachother. Their previous matches with eachother where underwelming, and Daniels and Dragon's styles don't seem to mesh up well. I'm sure AJ will do great with Dragon and Davey as he always seems willing to take some stiff offense in PWG.

I'm sure Dragon and Davey will look great, AJ could step up his game but Daniels is the only element of this match I'm not excited about. Dragon and Davey do well as dickheads who enjoy punishing their opponents, but with two TNA guys who always seem to get booked strongly in other promotions and rarely lose cleanly it seems that the match is going to be different. I enjoy matches where Dragon seems to be the mastermind behind the match and seems to be the one putting together matches, and I hope he will be putting this together as opposed to Daniels or Styles who probably don't know how to work with Davey.


agreed 100%
"Live fast, die." - G.G. Allin
astro_zombie
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:17 pm
Location: alaska

Postby It's A Bomb » Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:04 am

I really wish another team would of gotten a shot at the tag belts for the next show. Daniels is never on in PWG anymore and I doubt AJ would be willing to let Dragon and Davey look strong because of the way he seems to be booked. Seeing guys like Quick, Generico, Disco, Excalibur, Ronin, Tornado, and other younger guys(Well, Disco isn't young lol) have a chance to get over by wrestling with Dragon is more entertaining. And seeing Dragon bring Davey along and helping him get a share of the spotlight is fun also. I'd love to see Los Luchas, Claudio and Hero, Arrogance, X-Foundation(if they don't break up again), or even a team like The Havana Pitbulls get shows insted of Daniels and Styles.
It's A Bomb
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:07 pm

Postby SuperSteen » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:31 am

I don't see a title change for the mere fact that Daniels and AJ are both busy with TNA that their appearances in PWG have been sporadic as of late and having Champions who aren't around to consistently defend the titles does not bode well for the division.
SuperSteen
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:39 am
Location: The O.C.

Postby CheMateo » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:35 pm

SoCalAndy wrote:There is some stuff I'm worried about. One is how Daniels would be willing to take Dragon and Davey's offense and if he's going to step up his game. He's been in cruise control lately and doesn't seem to take much high impact moves.


I agree with SoCalAndy. So why do people still get so excitied about Daniels when he is on a PWG show? I mean I don't boo him or anything, he is just met with apathy from me.
User avatar
CheMateo
 
Posts: 1771
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Farmington Dist. L.A.

Fallen Styles

Postby Mac Machine » Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:37 pm

I don't see where you peps are coming from as far as not seeing AJ/Daniels as champs. Both have been around since pretty much day 1 and have had a presence the whole time. Daniels is a Socal legend and may not be on every show, but has been the most seen outsider/bigger star. AJ, well, nobody gave him any chance to win the title did they? Everyone said that he has to big of bookings and wouldn't be able to make the shows. Well he did, and PWG shocked everyone by giving him the title. All I'm saying is don't count this team out from winning the tag belts.
Mac Machine
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:35 pm
Location: SGV

Postby onlxn » Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:46 pm

I think it's smart booking, as it's definitely a tag match that can main event a show. Cool to see the tag belts being featured so prominently, and it'll be a big win for Dragon & Davey.

As a match, I'm less excited about it. I don't think Daniels is bad in PWG exactly -- he's actually very entertaining. But he's getting by mainly with character shtick instead of high-intensity work. That, plus the fact that he's never really a stiff worker, does make him stick out a little stylistically.

Also, may just be me, but I thought AJ and SD didn't mesh super-well in their match back in April. Can't quite put my finger on why, and it may be the kind of thing they can solve, but I just didn't think that was much of a match.

The part of the match I'm most excited is AJ/Davey, as I think they'll match up real well with each other. If Daniels adapts to the rougher style, it could be real good, but I imagine it'll just end up being fun and decent.
onlxn
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:07 pm

Postby SoCalAndy » Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:34 pm

I don't think Daniels is bad in PWG exactly -- he's actually very entertaining. But he's getting by mainly with character shtick instead of high-intensity work.


I don't think he's entertaining at all. He can have little sparks once in awhile and do something funny, but it seems like everything he does has been repeated a million times. Plus I really have a hard time getting into his character as there's no real definition of what he's trying to be in my mind. His style does stick out from the other wrestler's styles inside the ring, but just because he sticks out doesn't really make that a good thing.
SoCalAndy
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:00 am
Location: Pasadena, California

Postby astro_zombie » Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:07 pm

i think daniels is just coasting when he comes to pwg... some of his matches are pretty cool, and the whole "walking penis" thing was hilarious, but there isnt really anything special about his matches...

Plus I really have a hard time getting into his character as there's no real definition of what he's trying to be in my mind.


i think hes going for the "im christopher daniels and ive wrestled everywhere on earth and i dont need to be here i just do it for the paycheck" type of guy... but i see where youre coming from with the "just because he sticks out doesnt make it a good thing."
"Live fast, die." - G.G. Allin
astro_zombie
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:17 pm
Location: alaska

Postby onlxn » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:27 pm

Well, there's certainly no doubt that Daniels doesn't give it his all athletically in PWG these days. No crazy bumps, doesn't even bring out much of his offense... it'd be accurate to say that he's coasting. However, a wrestler can do that and still bring a lot to the table. Daniels sometimes does.

When Daniels commits to wrestling a comedy match (vs. Danielson in BOLA, in the 12/17 8-man), he's real good at it, and he genuinely adds something to a PWG show. When he tries to mix comedy with spot wrestling (vs. Bosh in August, vs. Frankie in November), it really falls flat, for two reasons:
1) His wrestling is very smooth and almost robotic -- it's exactly wrong for comedy wrestling. He's not like Bosh or Tornado, who can be funny mid-spot -- he's either in comedy mode or wrestling mode at any given moment.
2) He doesn't work hard enough to get the highspot/comedy PWG hybrid style over. He'll wrestle a story-free highspot-based match, but he won't include the highspots.

The best part of the Bosh match at "SLSS" was the build-up to the dick punch. Was funny, was involving, was satisfying. The whole match should've been that way -- Bosh going for it early, Daniels working the hand to try and prevent it, etc. Could've been a great, weird, funny match. Instead it was three minutes of wackiness mixed with some generic serious wrestling. Just not a satisfying combo.

In contrast, Daniels gave an awesome comedy performance in the "Astonishing" 8-man, because he chose a story point and stuck to it (being the harried leader of a bunch of jagoffs). He didn't go into five-minute spot sequence and drop the comedy -- he worked here and there, but stayed focused on the goal of being a funny heel traffic cop. Worked great.

I don't have a problem with Daniels not busting his ass physically at PWG shows -- I get why he does it from a business perspective, and he has the talent to entertain without it. I just wish he'd commit to the idea of not wrestling serious, physical matches -- if he'd just stick to funny story matches, he'd be a real asset every time out.[/i]
onlxn
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:07 pm

Postby SoCalAndy » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:13 am

Honestly, I'm not buying the Daniels comedy act. He's had plenty of fine matches in PWG with guys like Quance, Hero, the Joe/Reyes/Dragon tag from the one year show, but aside from that he's done nothing for me. Sure, he can do some funny stuff but I really don't think he's worth bringing in just for comedy stories and average matches. If he was brought in once in awhile and put effort into his matches I'd most likely enjoy watching his stuff again insted of dreading his matches.
SoCalAndy
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:00 am
Location: Pasadena, California

Postby onlxn » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:34 am

Fair enough. I think from PWG's perspective, he's worth booking no matter the quality of his performance, as he's a big name that they (usually) don't have to fly in. But I can understand you as a fan not wanting a half-speed wacky Daniels. I think he's good at the wackiness, but even so, I'll admit to sometimes being disappointed that he doesn't give it his all athletically.

You mentioned some good matches there. Yeah, it seems like he turned a corner after the Styles draw -- essentially the first thirty minutes of that match were all Daniels shtick, and he was able to keep the crowd into it. It's almost as if he realized in that match that he could get by on shtick and stop risking injury in PWG, and his workrate plummeted.
onlxn
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:07 pm

Postby astro_zombie » Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:04 am

SoCalAndy wrote:Honestly, I'm not buying the Daniels comedy act. He's had plenty of fine matches in PWG with guys like Quance, Hero, the Joe/Reyes/Dragon tag from the one year show, but aside from that he's done nothing for me. Sure, he can do some funny stuff but I really don't think he's worth bringing in just for comedy stories and average matches. If he was brought in once in awhile and put effort into his matches I'd most likely enjoy watching his stuff again insted of dreading his matches.


onlxn wrote:Fair enough. I think from PWG's perspective, he's worth booking no matter the quality of his performance, as he's a big name that they (usually) don't have to fly in. But I can understand you as a fan not wanting a half-speed wacky Daniels. I think he's good at the wackiness, but even so, I'll admit to sometimes being disappointed that he doesn't give it his all athletically.

You mentioned some good matches there. Yeah, it seems like he turned a corner after the Styles draw -- essentially the first thirty minutes of that match were all Daniels shtick, and he was able to keep the crowd into it. It's almost as if he realized in that match that he could get by on shtick and stop risking injury in PWG, and his workrate plummeted.


hit the nail on the head
"Live fast, die." - G.G. Allin
astro_zombie
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:17 pm
Location: alaska

Postby Aaron » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:44 am

SoCalAndy wrote:Plus I really have a hard time getting into his character as there's no real definition of what he's trying to be in my mind.


The problem there aint with you.

He has the whole Fallen Angel gimmick but doesn't work any of it into his matches.

Entrance = Fallen Angel
Name of moves = Fallen Angel
Ringwork = Christopher Daniels

IMO.
Image
Aaron
 
Posts: 177
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:56 am
Location: England, UK

Postby onlxn » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:48 am

He has the whole Fallen Angel gimmick but doesn't work any of it into his matches.


Yeah, that's always been an odd thing about Daniels. He has a very specific, cool-sounding gimmick, and a good sinister entrance to match... and then he wrestles a slick, technical style with no allusions to being a Fallen Angel. He has never -- in PWG, in TNA, even in Prophecy-era ROH -- gotten any real mileage out of the gimmick or even explained what it's supposed to mean. It's a weird mismatch.[/quote]
onlxn
 
Posts: 630
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:07 pm

Postby SoCalAndy » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:53 pm

Yeah, that's the biggest reason as to why I can't get into his gimmick. It's hard for me to take him seriously.
SoCalAndy
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:00 am
Location: Pasadena, California

Postby Mark of the Dragon » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:12 am

onlxn wrote:
He has the whole Fallen Angel gimmick but doesn't work any of it into his matches.


Yeah, that's always been an odd thing about Daniels. He has a very specific, cool-sounding gimmick, and a good sinister entrance to match... and then he wrestles a slick, technical style with no allusions to being a Fallen Angel. He has never -- in PWG, in TNA, even in Prophecy-era ROH -- gotten any real mileage out of the gimmick or even explained what it's supposed to mean. It's a weird mismatch.
[/quote]


The Fallen Angel Gimmick lost it's impact after he left the XPW promotion IMO. He's like the Undertaker in a way, after so long the Gimmick becomes old an redundent. He needs to reinvent himself, or emerce himself in the F.A. presona, an be less Chris Daniels. He has the Skills no question about it. He's Wrestled all over the world, an like someone said previously He's is a SoCal Legend. But unfortunatly I do agree his PWG matches seem lacking in the intensity that Most PWG Matches are known for. It's like he saves his all for the TNA Promotion, wich I can understand sence it's a large majority of his Meal ticket. Why risk the chance of injury. (Shrugs) But thats my take of it, I could be wrong..
Mark of the Dragon
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:37 pm

Postby SoCalAndy » Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:33 am

Saying Daniels' character lost it's impact after leaving XPW is stupid for two reasons.

1. Daniels in XPW wasn't a major event in XPW's history or in Daniels' career.

2. His gimmick in ROH when he first arrived was well done and still had some effect on his character in 2002 through 2003.
SoCalAndy
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:00 am
Location: Pasadena, California

Postby Mark of the Dragon » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:12 pm

SoCalAndy wrote:Saying Daniels' character lost it's impact after leaving XPW is stupid for two reasons.

1. Daniels in XPW wasn't a major event in XPW's history or in Daniels' career.

2. His gimmick in ROH when he first arrived was well done and still had some effect on his character in 2002 through 2003.


Sorry if my views seem stupid to you. Daniels may not have been a "Major event in XPW's History. But there they did play up the character angle. more thne he does now. Now it's more like He's Daniels an the Fallen Angel is just an old Alias he's unwilling to drop, thats all I ment. As for ROH? I don't know never checked them out so I couldn't comment on him there.
Mark of the Dragon
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 5:37 pm

Next

Return to Pro Wrestling Guerrilla Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: abouttreefitty350 and 6 guests