Steve Yohe wrote:My first live card was in 1962 & I've been watching longer. I went to all the Olympic Shows in the 60's & 70's. I really got involved in the sheets around 1978 & it hasn't stopped. I did quit watching american wrestling around 1999, after WCW created a WC out of an actor. The booking going on during this period made me sick & I could see his company, with the greatest talent roster in history, falling apart...so I stopped watching it. I still kepted up with Japanese wrestling & i read the news in the WON.
Last year, I desided to get back into it and started going to the PWG shows. I even started watch some of the WWE TV, but got sick of that real fast. I did love the PWG shows. To me, the total cards are way better than anything I ever saw at the Olympic. Blows them away.
I also like the PWG fans. There very smart & they like being part of the show, but know the limits & don't take it too far. Most comments are usally right on & fun.
But to an old time fan, it's very strange. I was talking to another old time fan, Dan Westbrook who was the photographer for Gong Magazine, who went to a PWG show, and he was saying the same thing to me. It's all very strange to us. Your all smart & don't pretend to go by KF. You just want good matches, & so do I, but I ready don't understand how fans think today & what gets them off about today's wrestling. I don't get, completely, how they thing. The wrestlers comming out of character is herd for us old guys to get used to.
I know WCW & WWF got the idea over to some fans that wins & losses don't matter. I hate that idea. You need a type of storyline to create a reason for a match. Make it important. I don't mean the WWF style with writers & shit, but the promotion needs a form to it. Do it in the ring, like the Japanese, & don't kill things with too much talk. I know a small promotion has problems...I understand all of that....and what I've seen of PWG booking has been very good.
But I don't understand the mentality of indy fans, and I'm trying to understand how they think today, because I don't like being a dumbass. I'm trying to learn.
There also is a form of Kayfabe on this site, probably doesn't exist outside of it. They push the shows & all the comments are positive. You sell it like the matches as all great & everything wonderful. You don't really get down to why you really book thing, but try to present it in a show Biz way. Which is probably the way to sell it. But I have this way of wanting to cut thru the crap & get the real story. I'm kind of a jerk.
So I posted what I did. Didn't mean to be disrespectful to anyone, but I thought I'd learn something.
But I am a fan & I do bitch. Just give me a reason I understand & I'm fine.
I think that's enough. I do enjoy the PWF & it's fans.
Well I could talk about this topic and many of the points made for hours, so I apoligize in advance if I ramble here or get off track. I think I see where you are coming from for the most part, Steve. You have certainly experienced much more of Pro Wrestling's evolution than I have. But at the same time I was a fan well before the internet became such a huge factor in the business. So I've seen both sides of that coin myself. I suppose I would classify myself as somewhat of a "smart" fan. I've been subscribing to The Observer since the mid 90's. I was way in to the international scene for quite a few years. I definitely had my time in the sun where "workrate" ruled over all else. I like being knowledgable and debating all kinds of different aspects of the business with other "smart" fans. But at my core, I still want to suspend my disbelief when I'm at a show and really "believe" in what I'm watching. It's a tough thing to legitimately balance. But I do try.
The lack of "Kayfabe" in today's Pro Wrestling is no surprise. It's just another casuality at the hands of technology. I get that it's tough to really keep the curtain up over what goes on behind the scenes. But it's still a bummer to see such a blatant lack of logic and realism in most Wrestling promotions. It's almost like they'd rather we didn't suspend our disbelief whatsoever. Much like you, Steve, I wish Championship Titles were more important. I wish booking made sense consistantly. I wish more matches were built up to elicite an emotional response from people instead of resulting in little more than dueling chants and somebody nitpicking how many spots were blown. Wins and losses should absolutely matter! And I do think a lot of that is lost on today's fans. But despite those negative things, being a fan of wrestling (especially indy wrestling) can offer a lot of positives as well.
To bring this back to PWG, I think that the promotion is fantastic for what it is. It's a place to go every month or so, have a few cold (or occasionally lukewarm) beverages, sit in the front row wedged between somebody you just hope is wearing deoderant, and watch a fun night of Professional Wrestling. Sometimes I wish that there were more actual storylines done to build up matches. Sometimes I wish that the Tag Team title belts looked half way professional. And sometimes I wish that a guy who was pinned by Johnny Yuma in the first round of a tag team tourny wouldn't receive a World Title shot on the next show. But as a wrestling fan, there is SO MUCH more to love with PWG than not. I think the fact that PWG is so universally praised and us fans are a big part of it is AWESOME! There is definitely a feeling of community and bonding with people that goes on at a PWG event. And in some ways, I believe THAT is what drives the passion of many of the "smart" fans. Sharing in the atmosphere of the entire PWG experience with other like-minded people is pretty powerful.
So to go back to your question of "what get's the indy fans off about wrestling today?", I think it's all about being a part of something that makes you feel like your contribution makes a difference. It's about seeing guys work their asses off in front of a small yet enthusiastic crowd. It's about asking yourself "did I have a kickass time and get a little crazy tonight?". And if the answer is "yes" (as my usually is), all the negative things that you could dwell on don't seem so important anymore.