El Hijo del Generico wrote:
Ok, I'll give you Saturday night. He was pretty great on Saturday and his elbow meant something since it led directly to the finish(which was very random and disappointing not based on who won, just on how suddenly daniels tapped right when I felt Hero and Daniels had gotten into a good groove). And last time I checked, he was still finishing people off with his standard roaring elbow in ROH and Japan. And yes he throws the same elbow more than twice. I remember that sequence on Sunday where he hit Joey with three straight elbows and they were all the same spin to build momentum and hit type elbows. Again, I don't hate Hero, I would just like him vary his moveset a little bit more. He's getting better at it, but he still needs to cut back on the elbows is all.
Do you count every move everyone does? He can't win with people like you. In the first three matches, very few elbows, but in the last he went crazy, but it wasn't weird, it fit the match. Some people do certain moves alot, and I don't see people counting every god damn move other people do. It isn't a big deal, it's nitpicking as people search for some reason to get upset. You weren't yelling out each one he did in the other matches when there were less, and you weren't counting when Roddy chopped, which is common for him. Hero's style is that instead of lots of punches or kicks or other strikes, his is an elbow. For some reason, people can't get past that, and it really baffles me that fans want to harp on it. He had arguably two of the best matches of the show (vs Daniels and vs Tozawa) and here you are focusing on the elbows he threw, which were not incongruent or out of place. It seems to me like you either are looking for a reason to complain, or to get attention in the crowd because you so cleverly can insult a wrestler's work.
krayzie Bone wrote:Ok American Wolves, let me ask you a question, and believe me I'm not asking this to put you down or insult you; Do you understand strong style wrestling?
I didn't know that Hero based his wrestling on Inoki. I learn something knew every day.
If you are the same jdw I'm thinking of, you know enough about Japanese wrestling to know that you do not have to be based on Inoki solely to be a strong style wrestler.
Roddy's chops are in no way, shape or form, a part of ANY of his finishing moves and/or holds. Hero's finish (Or at least one of his many) is a variation on a forearm/elbow strike. It's not the same thing, I understand that. If an MMA (sidenote: Why the fuck is it so awkward to say a MMA fighter? The M isn't a vowel, and yet it flows so much better when it's said "an MMA fighter) fighter Backhand punches you once, and later in the fight hits a spinning backfist, OBVIOUSLY the spinning back fist is more lethal, and more likely to knock you out.
I know Hero's whole psychology with those is "I hit the elbow to set up another elbow" as opposed to Strong hitting back breakers to soften a wrestler up for the Strong Hold, and I don't mind. But after a certain point, it gets tiresome. Same with Nigel and his Lariats. They almost always look brutal and just stiff as fuck, but once it's kicked out of enough, you stop thinking it'll end a match.
Hero's been good about it for a while, now. I know he only hit one elbow against Daniels, don't remember against Tozawa (Which I'd excuse based on principle, that match was insanely good), don't remember against Gatson and I stopped counting vs. Joey. And I'll give a pass for the finals, because it's the damn finals. You're supposed to go all out and fight through pain and it's much more believable.
Maybe you could blame it on they Joey hate, or maybe still on Hero's overall saturation of elbows, but the crowd was DEAD during the Superkick/Elbow sequence. Flat as shit. I can get over his overuse of elbows in the right spots/moments/matches. No one cared when they were just destroying each other with their signature strikes. And they should have.
Compare this to a guy like Mitsuharu Misawa, who's forearms were over as hell, because he knew how to use them, and his opponents knew to sell them like death. He didn't always go for pinfalls right after them, thus there was less waste on them for nearfalls. Hero has PLENTY of moves he can use as finishers. And I have no problem with him using multiple elbows. Maybe the compromise is Hero just doesn't go for a pinfall everytime he hits one? Maybe just use them in the early stages of the match to wear an opponent down, or get back the momentum and switch him to an offensive front?
Either way, I don't see why Wolves at yelling Hero "You're better than this" means he's trying to insult Hero and get himself over. It's not like he's one of the fucking douchebags yelling out stupid shit like "I HATE SWISS CHEESE" at Claudio, or "TAKE HIM TO BOOTCAMP!" when Hero throws his opponent into his foot in the corner. And he didn't say it in the stupid chanting cadence trying to get other people to join in with him. He had an opinion, he said it directly at Hero and not to anyone else in the crowd, and that was that. That's not insulting. That's criticism. Not constructive criticism, but then again it's not insulting or hateful either. He's got an opinion and he voiced it. Why's that not ok?
Another sidenote: Anybody remember the Young Bucks' heel turn back at DDT4 2009? Of course you do. Who's to say this is any different, with Joey getting absolutely shit on? It's like literally the EXACT same situation. Claudio returned to PWG and was mega over, basically being 1000x better than he was when he was last in PWG. Everyone took to him, and when Joey won (A consistently over guy who is one of the most popular wrestlers on the roster), they were pissed. Same as Young Bucks (A consistently over team who are one two of the most popular wrestlers on the roster), beating the debuting Men of Low Moral Fiber, who the crowd immediately took to as well. The Bucks took so many great, believable nearfalls that the crowd got pissed at THEM, because their new "darlings" (Omega and Taylor) were impressing so much that they wanted them to pull off the massive upset.
That was unplanned. Is it so much of a stretch that PWG could've planned it, this time? Not at all.
That was a lot more than I'd intended to write. Yeesh.