Why isn't PWG "high priority?"

[JustJay]

I've been reading a lot in the "top 10 PWG workers" thread regarding guys like Daniels, AmDrag and Joe about how they "don't care about PWG," "PWG is a low-priority booking for these guys," "they don't try as hard in PWG" and the question I keep coming up with is WHY?

I mean, I know PWG isn't on the level of TNA (national television, PPV, in-store DVDs, ACTION FIGURES~! and a video game on the way) and probably ROH (a much larger, rabid fanbase that expects high-level performances from its wrestlers and can be a gateway to TNA as of late) but PWG isn't exactly your average podunk ABC indy fed.

PWG is the CLEAR #2 independent promotion in the U.S. They provide massive DVD exposure for the wrestlers- events are available for purchase in the widest amount of online sites out of any indy fed (Highspots, RFVideo, SmartMark Video, Wrestlingsuperstore.com, several sites in the UK, plus their official site) and they always seem to be hot sellers. PWG is wildly popular internationally, as the European Vacation shows proved, and back in SoCal they also have an incredibly loyal fanbase that has tripled in size since the fed's inception in 2003. East Coast feds like CZW are aware of PWG and have provided guys like Super Dragon, Excalibur, the AXP and Chris Bosh the chance to expand their wrestling travels.

So with all these advantages, why isn't PWG a "priority" for some of the bigger national stars, making them (apparently) not try as hard here? It especially doesn't make sense because I've seen lots of high-level indy guys bust ass in IWA Mid-South for crowds of 50. It just seems like a place lots of indy wrestlers should be dying to work for...I dunno...hope this post didn't make me sound like a snarky elitist or anything.

[onlxn]

I've been reading a lot in the "top 10 PWG workers" thread regarding guys like Daniels, AmDrag and Joe about how they "don't care about PWG," "PWG is a low-priority booking for these guys," "they don't try as hard in PWG" and the question I keep coming up with is WHY?

Well, it's a good question... and a complicated one.

First of all, I wouldn't put too much stock in the "they don't care about PWG" talk. That's fans being defensive about their company. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes, and I think there's really no basis to say that any of these workers doesn't "care" about PWG. In fact, all the evidence points to the opposite -- increasingly famous and sought-after guys like AJ, Daniels, and yes, Joe, have continued to work fairly regularly in PWG. Those guys can get booked anywhere... if they truly didn't care about PWG, they wouldn't have to take bookings there. On a whole, indy stars seem pretty committed to working PWG, as the only big smark name we've never seen here is Low-Ki.

Similarly, I just don't buy all the "X doesn't try hard in PWG" stuff. Those accusations stretch back to Punk and Homicide, and it's almost always just bullshit from fans who aren't paying attention to the details of the situation. Joe goes full-speed, AJ goes full-speed, Danielson goes full-speed... Sabin, Shelley, Hero... they all go full-speed. There are only two guys who seem to wrestle any different in PWG than they do elsewhere: Christopher Daniels and Rocky Romero.

As far as Daniels goes, I don't think it'd be fair to see he doesn't try, so much as to say that he's focusing on being a comedy worker in PWG, not a workrate guy. Is that because he doesn't give a shit about PWG? I highly doubt it -- he works the fed every time he possibly can, and he's given more than one rah-rah speech about the company. Seems to me that the reason Daniels is wackier and less physical in PWG is *because it's a wacky company*. He can't get away with wackiness alone in TNA and ROH, but he can and does, in PWG -- he's no less over than he was a year ago. Let's not forget -- Daniels isn't young. He's 37 and probably more beat-up than most, so he takes fewer hits than usual in PWG and goes for larfs instead. That's not not caring -- that's knowing your audience.

Romero... I don't know about Romero. Part of it is that he's always liable to have random meandering matches, no matter where he is -- he has a recurring habit of randomly switching styles mid-match, which hurts what he's doing. But part of it -- well, shit, I'll admit that sometimes in PWG, Rocky looks like he flat-out doesn't want to be there. I don't know if that's true, but it's worth remembering that he's the biggest wrestler star on the roster, by far. TNA is all well and good, but Rocky is a regular on New Japan tours, and wrestles in the Tokyo Dome. If there's any guy that might feel "above" PWG's level... well, you could see it being Rocky.

So that takes care of the "they don't care/they don't try hard" arguments. The only one remaining is the claim that PWG is a low-priority booking for some of these guys. And that one, on a purely factual level, is clearly true. So let's talk about why.

First of all, I think it's far from clear that PWG is the #2 indy promotion in the US. In terms of actual business, I'd imagine it's more like #7. CZW draws substantially more and also sells a lot of DVDs; JAPW draws a lot more. There are a couple Southern nostalgia feds that kill PWG in terms of attendance... hell, I'm not sure that PWG outdraws FMLL. PWG is gaining stature and popularity, and the European shows will really help that, but as of right now, money-wise, I don't think it's #2.

However, PWG is a clear (or fairly clear -- IWA-MS always has its supporters) #2 in terms of smark credibility, which one would think would sway a lot of indy stars. But here's the problem: for indy stars, it's not "ROH, then PWG, then IWA-MS... then everyone else". It's really "ROH... then everyone else". ROH is head-and-shoulders above every other fed in size, Internet buzz and exposure. ROH is even on the WWE's radar, which PWG most likely isn't. I don't know the pay scales, but I'd certainly assume that ROH pays as well as PWG, if not better. Most importantly, ROH helped launch the careers of a lot of PWG's biggest names: Joe, Daniels, Danielson, Cabana, AJ, Shelley, Strong, etc. etc. etc. Those guys are all hugely loyal to ROH and to Gabe, and they'll pretty much always work ROH over PWG. I think we all understand that, and I doubt any of us really even has a problem with that. ROH has always been a variable PWG has had to work around, and it's always worked out fine.

But over the last year, a new problem has arisen. That problem is FIP.

FIP is a lot like PWG -- it's a fast-rising DVD-sales-based smark-ish feds with a lot of the same stars. The problem is that Gabe books FIP, so the ROH-raised guys are almost as loyal to FIP as they are to ROH. And for younger, less established workers, FIP is a better place to be booked than PWG, because FIP leads to ROH. So as ROH and FIP just keep adding more and more dates, PWG will have fewer and fewer opportunities to book many of the usual fly-ins. Add in a few additional variables, like the high-paying 1PW shows over in England, and the fact that TNA is increasingly persnickety about their guys working their indy dates, and you can see why PWG doesn't land the big names as often as they used to.

None of this has anything to do with workers not caring about PWG. I think they do... but they care about ROH and FIP, too. It ultimately comes down to business decisions, and you have to admit that most of the time, ROH/FIP would be a better business decision for a worker than PWG.

The good news in all this is that PWG is *extremely* savvy about dealing with all these variables. They've established a small number of regular fly-ins who aren't booked by ROH or FIP but who still bring a lot to the table: Steen, Generico, Sabin and Hero. When ROH doesn't fit certain guys on their cards, PWG knows well in advance, and gets them... we see Shelley and Evans a lot that way. And when there's a small window where you can book the superworkers, PWG does, and has a hugely successful double-shot weekend. I actually really like the rhythm of PWG shows, as both the local-heavy shows and the star-studded shows have their pluses.

Finally... and damn, I've rambled... there are big issues with booking either Joe or Danielson right now (and they don't relate to Joe's European gaffe). The big issues are the TNA X-Division Title and the ROH World Title. There's no way in hell that they're going to let Joe job these days, which really ties a company's hands. He's no-showed a couple times lately, but in general, he's being booked less, and I think the fact that he can't job is a variable in that.

The Danielson thing is different, because he inexplicably jobbed to Jimmy Yang at All-Star Weekend 2 (it wasn't 100% clean, but it was 90% clean). I have no idea why that was booked or why it was allowed... but in general I doubt that Gabe's letting Danielson job these days. Again, that hamstrings a company. You can't have part-timers going over full-timers every show -- you need the part-timers to help build up your full-timers. So I wouldn't be shocked if the PWG brass were a little less enthusiastic about booking Danielson than they used to be.

It can be disappointing when stars can't be booked or have to cancel, but when you look it, I think the more striking thing is how many great stars PWG books and how often they book them. The only more consistently star-studded feds are all run by Gabe Sapolsky and have a big money mark behind them. It's a real credit to the professionalism of the Six that PWG can operate on the level it does.

[Big Joe]

Finally... and damn, I've rambled... there are big issues with booking either Joe or Danielson right now (and they don't relate to Joe's European gaffe). The big issues are the TNA X-Division Title and the ROH World Title.

Well, that's not a problem anymore. After last night, I betcha AJ takes the fall in the tag title match.

[noah_ther]

To be honest, I don't think most of the bigger Indy guys are ham and egging it as much as some of the posters on here think.

I agree that we're not gettin' PPV quality matches each and every show out of these guys but they are taking the time to put on decent match most times. I think part of the reason t hey aren't flying all over the ring as much as they seem to in RoH or TNA is because a) they may not have as much familiarity with some of the guys in PWG that they have in RoH or TNA and thus aren't as confident in how well they'll protect them, or b) they have to make sure they aren't injured and take it a little easier because RoH and TNA really are their bread and butter and are the main reason they're so popular with other Indy promotions. I think most PWG guys are really good about protecting each other so b) is probably the reason. I just don't know why people hate on the TNA/RoH guys so much because there are few times I felt really cheated or disappointed in their matches, maybe the booking, but not the in-ring work.

[It's A Bomb]

This thread is pretty ridiculous. Mostly because of the posts made by noah_ther and onlxn. The stuff onlxn said was pretty off the wall as it seems like he was trying to make a bunch of points based upon things that took place in the past that could be passed off as facts. The part where he says his points take care of the arguments of guys not trying hard in PWG is dumb, because he most likely doesn't know what the real story about what goes on in the minds of Romero or Daniels. The part where he says CZW does better actual business, along with other Southern promotions is off the wall. Sure, the hick promotions draw a lot, but chances are they don't make much money as they have to pay guys on the shows, building costs, insurance, ring cost, travel, and various expenses since they only rely on gate instead of DVD sales.

And CZW has recently began to draw less fans to their shows, so it's not hard to say PWG is above them when it comes to business stuff. CZW most likely does make more money, but they also book wrestlers that most likely don't charge much(and maybe in some cases, don't cost anything to book), has another company to film and produce their events that aren't professionaly made, and have people do things for them and don't pay them much. I'm willing to bet PWG does better business than CZW and the Southern promotions.

The booking issues point brought up really don't hold much ground, unless you're on the inside and know what goes on. There must be good reasons as to why they don't book them, but they're most likely unrelated to politics or anything like that. Comments like those are ones that start up rumors, and thus ruins things between the people who really matter.in the wrestling world.

The comments by noah makes him come off as a fan who doesn't want to believe that people are mailing it in. The flying around the ring part is a terrible point, as most of the fans who complain about the mailing it in don't seem to care about high flying and seem to care more about effort being put in. And it's not hate on TNA/ROH guys, it's just people not liking the effort put in by some wrestlers. The only hate I've seen has been on Petey Williams for doing a poor job in PWG, CM Punk for putting on some stinkers, and Chris Daniels.

Honestly, the concept of this thread is nice and all. Everything else said has either been way off, makes no sense, or doesn't really hold any ground on the matter as there is a huge chance that the point made has been made off of assumptions and facts that aren't really solid.

[onlxn]

This thread is pretty ridiculous.

Thanks for sharing!

The part where he says his points take care of the arguments of guys not trying hard in PWG is dumb, because he most likely doesn't know what the real story about what goes on in the minds of Romero or Daniels.

Saying my points "take care" of those things was lazy wording on my part... otherwise, I think I made it clear that I wasn't presuming anything about anybody's mindset. My primary points were that 1) Daniels isn't not working hard so much as wrestling differently, and 2) Rocky sometimes *looks* like he doesn't want to be there. Those are observations based on going to PWG shows. Would you disagree with those assessments?

The part where he says CZW does better actual business, along with other Southern promotions is off the wall. Sure, the hick promotions draw a lot, but chances are they don't make much money as they have to pay guys on the shows, building costs, insurance, ring cost, travel, and various expenses since they only rely on gate instead of DVD sales.

I'd certainly assume that PWG sells more DVDs than those Southern promotions, but they do sell DVDs. CCW, for example, is sold on Highspots just like PWG. And I'm not sure why you enumerated the expenses for those feds, as though PWG doesn't have to pay to put on a wrestling show. I'd be willing to bet those feds fly in fewer guys than PWG...

And CZW has recently began to draw less fans to their shows, so it's not hard to say PWG is above them when it comes to business stuff. CZW most likely does make more money

Um... what?

I'm willing to bet PWG does better business than CZW and the Southern promotions.

Um... WHAT?

The booking issues point brought up really don't hold much ground, unless you're on the inside and know what goes on. There must be good reasons as to why they don't book them, but they're most likely unrelated to politics or anything like that. Comments like those are ones that start up rumors, and thus ruins things between the people who really matter.in the wrestling world.

LOL @ us dorks having an effect on anything... besides, what rumors could I possibly have started in my post? Every single ROH guy I listed has mentioned their loyalty to Gabe and ROH in some interview or another. Danielson and Joe have worked FIP over PWG every single time the two feds have run against each other in the past year. If you're talking about my belt-related theories, fine... but it's been made explicitly clear in the past that those champs are very rarely allowed to job. I don't think that's gonna start any fires there, ace.

Honestly, the concept of this thread is nice and all. Everything else said has either been way off, makes no sense, or doesn't really hold any ground on the matter as there is a huge chance that the point made has been made off of assumptions and facts that aren't really solid.

There's obviously going to be a speculative element to discussions like this -- I think everyone involved has acknowledged that. Hell, maybe PWG just doesn't *want* to book some of these guys as much as they used to. You're right -- we don't know.

But are you disputing that guys work FIP over PWG? Are you disputing that workers being unable to job -- which has almost always been true of TNA and ROH champions -- would be a booking complication for a wrestling company? What exactly are you trying to accomplish in this thread, besides letting us know that you're cranky?

[dxreydx]

PWG from my point of view is the place for indy wrestlers to have some FUN. PWG encourages this, ROH has their serious work rate matches, while PWG is considered the "fun" indy fed. PWG doesn't take it self so seriously as ROH does and thats why it has been such a success.

[SoCalAndy]

I'm not going to get involved in this discussion, as I feel that I can't really come up with reasons as to why some people don't see PWG as important as other promotions(I disagree with this, a lot) and there are more important things that are on my mind right now(like baseball! Baseball>Indy Wrestling, especially international baseball) but I'm going to make one point about the internet having an impact.

Onlxn, your post seems like you laugh at the thought of your comment having any effect on anything, so you most likely don't think it does. I have to say, little comments like that really do get rumors started. On the ROH board, someone made a joke about CM Punk getting a deaf gimmick when he gets called up to the WWE and it spread like wild fire. There's no way anyone can tell that PWG wasn't using Joe as much because he was holding a title and didn't want to have anyone job, and a comment like that could be easily mistaken as fact. A lot of people here could think that is the reason PWG didn't use Joe much, and things could be added by mistake and things could of gotten ugly. Your comment about the possible Pearce heat with PWG also had a small impact, as even Adam Pearce himself came here and said there was no heat.

I'm not sure what your intention was when you made that comment about PWG booking Danielson and Joe, and a lot of people might not be sure either and could easily mistake that for fact. Like Super Dragon has said in various interviews, fans on the net have an impact with the things they say. He may or may not have been talking about things like this discussion, but it's a great example on the internet's impact on wrestling when it comes to rumors.

With all that said, Go USA.

[onlxn]

Well, true that Pearce showed up after my comment... though I don't know that I'd regard that as an "impact", really...

I don't see what could possibly be taken out of context in my posts. TNA's refusal to let its champions job (except in extreme circumstances) has been documented in the Observer. Gabe's refusal to let Gibson job in JAPW started a very public Internet feud. I'm not saying what anyone thinks of anyone else... I'm speculating about possible reasons for booking or not booking guys. Made it pretty clear I was speculating, too.

The original poster was asking why workers make PWG a lower priority. My argument is that to the extent that they do, they have good business reasons for doing so. Does that idea really strike people as unreasonable or irresponsible?

[It's A Bomb]

Saying my points "take care" of those things was lazy wording on my part... otherwise, I think I made it clear that I wasn't presuming anything about anybody's mindset. My primary points were that 1) Daniels isn't not working hard so much as wrestling differently, and 2) Rocky sometimes *looks* like he doesn't want to be there. Those are observations based on going to PWG shows. Would you disagree with those assessments?

Your post made it seem like they're really like that. When I see Rocky at shows, I don't ever get the vibe that he doesn't want to be there. I don't agree with your assessments, because there is no way I can tell if those are the reasons why they don't try. And FYI, Rocky came off a bad shoulder injury, maybe he's "slacking off"(which I'm not really buying, as his matches have been really good) because he's wrestling with a bad shoulder? Maybe he's playing it safe?

I'd certainly assume that PWG sells more DVDs than those Southern promotions, but they do sell DVDs. CCW, for example, is sold on Highspots just like PWG.

You named one promotion, and there are plenty of other promotions out there who run the same kind of shows. I'm still willing to bet they don't make much money.

And I'm not sure why you enumerated the expenses for those feds, as though PWG doesn't have to pay to put on a wrestling show.

I'm not saying PWG isn't paying to put on shows, you got that wrong.

I'd be willing to bet those feds fly in fewer guys than PWG...

Yeah, maybe they don't. However, do you think booking Robert Gibson, Ricky Morton, Dusty Rhodes, Dennis Condrey, Bobby Eaton, or Mick Foley comes cheaper than PWG guys?

Um... what?

I thought you where smart enough to see my point, despite my fuck ups. What I'm saying is that because CZW attendence numbers, PWG must be doing better since they're not having people produce, film, or edit their own shows. Plus CZW books lesser known guys while PWG books bigger names, and it seems that PWG makes enough money to book bigger names on a consistent basis to book those names while CZW doesn't.

Um... WHAT?

Um.....WHAT? See, I can do that too when I miss someone's point.

LOL @ us dorks having an effect on anything... besides, what rumors could I possibly have started in my post?

Well, Mr Dork, as the post before said. There will always be an effect by little comments made by people like you, no matter what. Any small minded person who doesn't follow wrestling politics as closely as you do could easily think what you're saying is legit. Some simple minded folk could come along and easily think that PWG wont book guys because of some titles they hold.

Every single ROH guy I listed has mentioned their loyalty to Gabe and ROH in some interview or another. Danielson and Joe have worked FIP over PWG every single time the two feds have run against each other in the past year.

Ever stop to think that maybe Gabe had a bunch of dates lined up ahead of time and asked them to be on the shows? This just doesn't apply to Joe and Danielson, it applies to everyone that works there. Maybe it's not a case of PWG not being a high priority after all!

Oh, and Alex Shelley once worked a PWG show over an ROH show.

There's obviously going to be a speculative element to discussions like this -- I think everyone involved has acknowledged that.

Not really, nobody made a real effort to point that out and acted as if they know the real thoughts and feelings of people who choose one booking over the other or just mail things in.

But are you disputing that guys work FIP over PWG?

*Sigh* Nope, my entire point is that NOBODY REALLY KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT IS GOING THROUGH THE MINDS OF THESE PEOPLE. I'm not disputing anything, do I have to make things clearer for you?

Are you disputing that workers being unable to job -- which has almost always been true of TNA and ROH champions -- would be a booking complication for a wrestling company?

No, but I will say again that NOBODY REALLY KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT IS GOING THROUGH THE MINDS OF THESE PEOPLE. There could be a billion reasons as to why that don't involve booking complications. Plus, if someone is dumb enough to book those guys without having a thought out plan about how they're going to be used they shouldn't be bookers in the first place.

What exactly are you trying to accomplish in this thread, besides letting us know that you're cranky?

That a lot of you don't really know as much as you think you know. I'm not cranky though, I'm pretty happy right now and I'm enjoying life. In fact I just got a new kitty, his name is Tobias. He makes me <3 the world, because he's a cute little kitty.

[onlxn]

And FYI, Rocky came off a bad shoulder injury, maybe he's "slacking off"(which I'm not really buying, as his matches have been really good) because he's wrestling with a bad shoulder? Maybe he's playing it safe?

Could be. But we're really going to have to disagree on this one -- I've been disappointed by every Rocky PWG match since "Card Subject To Change". And I like Rocky. But whatever the reason, he's not working with the same intensity he does in other feds.

You named one promotion, and there are plenty of other promotions out there who run the same kind of shows. I'm still willing to bet they don't make much money.

These are feds that draw a legit 700 every time out. It's possible that they're not as profitable as PWG, but they're certainly making a lot of money -- my point (which was fairly obvious) is that PWG is *not* the clear #2 promotion, as was originally stated. There are a lot of fairly large-scale indies that just aren't on the smark radar.

Shit, I'd imagine that FCW brought in more money than PWG in '05. Obviously they spent a lot more, but the original point on the table was the size of the promotion. I doubt workers care how *profitable* a company they work for is, but there are obvious positives to working a *bigger* company.

Yeah, maybe they don't. However, do you think booking Robert Gibson, Ricky Morton, Dusty Rhodes, Dennis Condrey, Bobby Eaton, or Mick Foley comes cheaper than PWG guys?

Of course not. But again, what are we talking about here -- company size (i.e. revenue) or net profit? Doesn't a fed that *can* consistently book the above names seem like it's operating successfully on a fairly large scale?

I'm impressed as hell by the PWG brass, and I'd bet it's one of the most profitable companies in the US. My point was that we don't know that it's the clear #2 promotion in terms of stature. Your point seems to be, "Don't be so irresponsible -- we can't be sure that we don't know that." If you re-read the early posts in this thread, *I* was the one pointing out that we shouldn't make blanket assumptions about fed stature.

I thought you where smart enough to see my point, despite my fuck ups. What I'm saying is that because CZW attendence numbers, PWG must be doing better since they're not having people produce, film, or edit their own shows. Plus CZW books lesser known guys while PWG books bigger names, and it seems that PWG makes enough money to book bigger names on a consistent basis to book those names while CZW doesn't.

I'll admit I was being sassy, but I still don't quite get the upshot of what you're saying. CZW having outside production people and CZW having cheaper workers are contradictory points, are they not? If CZW can afford outside people to develop their DVDs etc., surely they have some money lying around...

Again, my guess is that PWG is in better shape than CZW, as it seems to be much more professionally run. But I don't think it's a no-brainer that PWG is a "bigger" fed, especially in workers' eyes. CZW's been around for almost a decade and is currently involved in a red-hot feud with ROH. The original poster called the PWG the clear #2... I just don't think it's that simple.

Well, Mr Dork, as the post before said. There will always be an effect by little comments made by people like you, no matter what. Any small minded person who doesn't follow wrestling politics as closely as you do could easily think what you're saying is legit. Some simple minded folk could come along and easily think that PWG wont book guys because of some titles they hold.

1) I don't follow wrestling politics all that closely, and I'll be the first to admit that I have no "INSIDAAAAH" knowledge. Re-read the thread -- I've been fairly consistent about making it clear that I'm speculating.

2) I'm not saying somebody hates somebody, or somebody fucked somebody's girlfriend. I'm saying that other feds' belts cause booking complications for PWG. The PWG Six have talked about navigating around the ROH and TNA X-Division belts in interviews before, and in SD's recently posted interview, he says that the fed is trying to concentrate on developing local guys. You're right -- the belts might not be a big variable -- but what could possibly be inflammatory about suggesting that they might be? Somebody involved will hear that the belts change things, even though they've all publicly acknowledged that they do?!

3) In a recent thread, you argued that Rob Feinstein wanted to fuck a 14-year-old boy. Now, Lord knows I agree with you -- Feinstein's disgusting. But isn't that unprovable speculation on an entirely different level? If you're gonna get on me for suggesting that PWG might not want to book a guy they can't job, don't you think you should refrain from suggesting that someone you don't know is a child molester?!

The Internet is all about talking out of your ass, and you're no more innocent of that than anyone else in this thread.

Ever stop to think that maybe Gabe had a bunch of dates lined up ahead of time and asked them to be on the shows? This just doesn't apply to Joe and Danielson, it applies to everyone that works there. Maybe it's not a case of PWG not being a high priority after all!

Of course this is a possibility. But if anything, I'd say the evidence points to PWG booking farther in advance than ROH. PWG announces dates farther in the future than ROH does. PWG was able to keep booking AJ and Daniels for all of year, for instance, because by the time ROH was allowed to take them back, PWG had already locked them up.

Oh, and Alex Shelley once worked a PWG show over an ROH show.

This is true -- Shelley worked "After School Special" instead of "Joe Vs. Kobashi". There's an instance or two of Evans working PWG on a night ROH is running, too. I'd argue that this is probably because those two aren't as important figures in ROH, and don't always fit into their cards (Jack, in particular, is a semi-regular for them)... but you're right, and it's a good point. I over-generalized in my first post.

But the original poster mentioned three names: Daniels, Danielson and Joe. The deal with Daniels isn't clear, but the latter two have worked ROH/FIP over PWG *every single time* they've run against each other. Maybe it's money, maybe it's being booked ahead of time, maybe it's stature, maybe it's loyalty... we don't know. But it's enough of a trend that it's worth discussing.

Not really, nobody made a real effort to point that out and acted as if they know the real thoughts and feelings of people who choose one booking over the other or just mail things in.

This is a quote from the beginning of my original post:

We don't know what goes on behind the scenes, and I think there's really no basis to say that any of these workers doesn't "care" about PWG.

Maybe I confused that point later... but you also may not have read my post carefully enough.

*Sigh* Nope, my entire point is that NOBODY REALLY KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT IS GOING THROUGH THE MINDS OF THESE PEOPLE. I'm not disputing anything, do I have to make things clearer for you?

See the above quote.

Plus, if someone is dumb enough to book those guys without having a thought out plan about how they're going to be used they shouldn't be bookers in the first place.

This I completely agree with. And as much as I love guys like Danielson and Joe, PWG has done a great job of booking good, compelling shows without them. Whatever the reasons for their not being around lately, they're not needed as much as they used to be.

I'm not cranky though, I'm pretty happy right now and I'm enjoying life. In fact I just got a new kitty, his name is Tobias. He makes me <3 the world, because he's a cute little kitty.

Good for you. I just got a hyper-ass dog named Jerry -- he's sloppy and adorable. Pets > message board arguments.

[eastcoastbias]

If I may I'd like to add a different spin on PWG having trouble at times getting talent. Most indy shows take place in the Eastern Time Zone. As such it is tough for wrestlers to fly coast to coast to work shows on back to back nights. I know American Dragon did it All Star Wekend. He worked the Friday night show w/ PWG and then worked the ROH show on Saturday in NJ. I didn't see his Saturday show but I wouldn't be surprised if it was not as good due to the travel. However if the wrestlers stay on the east coast they can work two shows in the same area (NY/Philly) or they have a shorter trip to the next show. That makes a difference. I don't it has anything to due with PWG's status. It has to due with dollars and travel.

[theleapinglemur]

I don't no anything about the finacial status, but I believe them to be the 2nd best indy promotion and one of the best in the world. I think when more people give them the credit they deserve and more people start going to the shows, it could lead to big things

[astro_zombie]

i am of the opinion that PWG is not "high priority" (whatever the fuck that means) because they seem to have more of a fun-based product. the wrestlers seem more loose in PWG than in other promotions. to me it looks like theyre working PWG because of their love for wrestling, and the fun they have putting on a good show for fans of wrestling. PWG also seems less product oriented, and less about making money and being a "high priority" company, in favor of a fun show for both the wrestlers and the fans alike. thats why i love PWG... its like a gift. like a party (in spirit, if not so literally). PWG isnt "high priority" because they dont have to be.