The Ten Best PWG Workers

Pro Wrestling Guerrilla Discussion

Postby TigerDriver98 » Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:36 pm

onlxn wrote: I don't think PWG should rely on Joe anymore, as he's made it clear that it's not a big booking for him... but if they could rely on his presence for, say, three more shows in the next couple months, they could do something really fun with the resentment he's created and then boot him out proper.


Exactly. It would be entertaining, plus it would ultimately lead to a PWG regular getting the proverbial rub from Joe. Which in no way can be a bad thing.

Anyway, keeping with the topic...

I was wondering, what is the general PWG consensus on these guys (who haven't really been covered so far):

Jimmy Yang
Alex Koslov
Charles Mercury (off and on again PWG wrestler, but a fav of mine)
Los Luchas
Hook Bomberry
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Postby onlxn » Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:05 pm

Jimmy Yang

He's good, definitely good... I don't think he'd crack my top ten, though. He's super-polished and smooth, but his matches don't have much story depth and he doesn't have much offense -- just kicks and Yang Time, really. It's hard to build a match properly with offense like that. But I'm looking forward to seeing more of him, as maybe his moveset will expand as he gets used to the lack of WWE restrictions.

Alex Koslov

Does a lot of things well, but he doesn't yet look totally comfortable in there (except against Cabana, and I credit Cabana for that). You can still feel him thinking about what to do next at certain points. But considering how many dates he's working, he's gonna get really good really quick -- I imagine he'll be a solid top ten guy a year from now.

Charles Mercury (off and on again PWG wrestler, but a fav of mine)

Totally agree with you -- he's the real deal. I wish he wouldn't use KENTA's exact finishing sequence, but otherwise he's a really damn good worker. Outworked Scott in their match last fall, and I think he's better than most of the local midcard guys.

The two locals that I really, REALLY think would add to PWG shows are Mercury and Tommy Williams (nee "Funky" Billy Kim). Mercury would be an above-average PWG worker, and Tommy would seriously be in my top ten without a doubt. Check out some Inoki Dojo shows -- he's that good.

Los Luchas

As I mentioned earlier, I've always enjoyed them, but they haven't looked good lately. They're just a little sloppy, a little tentative... could use more consistent ring time. Also, they put me in mind of the old accusation that Rev Pro guys could only work with Rev Pro guys. That's generally been proven to be untrue, but I think there's a bit of truth to it with Los Luchas. They have a pretty heavily lucha background, so the only PWG guys they really seem to click with are the Rev Pro guys who are more familiar with lucha-style. I do think that they could mesh really nicely with Disco & Nemesis this weekend, though.

Hook Bomberry

Hook's a weird one. I thought he was a great shoot-style worker a year or two ago -- good tags with Apollo Kahn, and a really underrated match with Bosh at the last Rev J -- but he looked pretty bad more often than not in Gunning For Hookers. I have to admit that GFH was basically my least favorite PWG act for awhile. Topgun is funny, but it's a sort of one-note comedic performance that gets somewhat less funny over time, and between Hook's sloppiness and Topgun's slow setting up of his spots, their matches were really pretty poor. If they start using Hook again, I hope it's as a more serious undercard guy, as he could do some really nice stuff with Koslov and Ronin, among others.

Speaking of Ronin... he's a mixed bag. Does some things really well -- his offense is really, really good -- but he works more slowly than most of the other midcarders, which makes him look bad. Also -- and this sounds like nit-picking, but I really don't think it is -- he either needs to get in better shape or change his ring gear. As a low-level American indy worker, you're just not going to be taken seriously if you have a futuristic, lucha-ish look like that and you also have a big belly. It's why Ronin almost never gets a good reaction when he first comes out -- because he looks silly but doesn't acknowledge it. He's a big, beefy white guy, and he wrestles that style well... he should dress that way, too.
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Postby Rish To The Rosh » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:17 pm

I guess I'll throw out my top 10 as well. I'll include guys like Danielson and Joe despite them not appearing so regularly for PWG recently, but I'll also give credit to people who didn't quite make the top 10 and would have without guys like those 2. Having seen upto All Star Weekend Night 2....

1. Samoa Joe - Yeah, I know, surprising, eh? Well, I think his work in PWG has been above anyone else
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Postby The Masked Akeem » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:44 pm

Rish to the Rosh, how do you justify putting Scott Lost at #3? It's one thing to be a fan of his, but that ranking is ridiculous.

And what's with this comment about Chris Daniels?
"wants PWG to fail, doesn
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Postby Rish To The Rosh » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:47 pm

The Masked Akeem wrote:Rish to the Rosh, how do you justify putting Scott Lost at #3? It's one thing to be a fan of his, but that ranking is ridiculous.

I explained why I think he deserves to be #3. Why do you not think he deserves to be at #3, apart from my opinion being 'rediculous'?

And what's with this comment about Chris Daniels?
"wants PWG to fail, doesn
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Postby SoCalAndy » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:49 pm

I think I'm just harboring resentment for putting me through that horrible Kanyon match.


I just wanted to point something out. During that match, Joey's shoulder was fucked up. Plus it seemed like Kanyon was the mastermind behind the match, as veterans always seem to be the ones who put matches together. I give Joey credit for trying, and I blame Kanyon for the bad match and for being gay.

Also, I still prefer the idea of Joe never coming back to PWG.
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Postby onlxn » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:35 pm

I'd agree -- Kanyon was the main one to blame for that match. I don't know which was worse, the fact that neither guy wrestled like a face or a heel in a 25-MINUTE MATCH or that the match was built around the fucking *Diamond Cutter*. Yeah, I sorta remember the "Kanyon Cutter" angle -- still, man, it's pathetic to structure a match around another dude's finisher. No matter it got crapped on so bad.
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Postby The Masked Akeem » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:22 pm

Rish to the Rosh wrote:
"I explained why I think he deserves to be #3. Why do you not think he deserves to be at #3, apart from my opinion being 'rediculous'? "

Here goes...

Rish to the Rosh wrote:
"3. Scott Lost - Shocking I bet, but not to me. I honestly think Scotty is one of the most naturally gifted wrestlers there is today, he has an amazing amount of potential that he will no doubt un-tap sooner than later, but what he has already shown off has been fantastic."

For starters, you say that there is untapped potential with Scott, and I'll agree with that. But the thing about untapped potential is it also means he hasn't reached it yet, and thus, can not be ranked ahead of all the people you ranked lower, unless you also believe they also have some untapped potential they haven't reached yet. In some cases that may be true, but I don't think anyone believes Super Dragon or AJ Styles are at that "he could be so good if he reached his potential" stage.

Rish to the Rosh wrote:
"I think he's a better tag wrestler than singles wrestler, but that could just be down to me being used to his tag work."

Agreed.

Rish to the Rosh wrote:
"His feud with Scorpio was shit hot and showed off both men
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Postby Rish To The Rosh » Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:16 am

The Masked Akeem wrote:For starters, you say that there is untapped potential with Scott, and I'll agree with that. But the thing about untapped potential is it also means he hasn't reached it yet, and thus, can not be ranked ahead of all the people you ranked lower, unless you also believe they also have some untapped potential they haven't reached yet. In some cases that may be true, but I don't think anyone believes Super Dragon or AJ Styles are at that "he could be so good if he reached his potential" stage.

Well, basically, I just think he's had better, more entertaining matches in PWG consistently than everyone below him. Obviously, I'm a big mark for the guy, so my opinion will probably come off as exaggerated markness, but I honestly believe he's the 3rd best worker in PWG. He hasn't reached all of his potential yet, nor have most of the guys below him (AJ can still improve quite a bit, I think, and Dragon is slightly inconsistent), but what he has reached it above those 7 guys work in PWG.

I still don't understand the AJ Styles hate, and apparently neither does Super Dragon, but ok.

I'm the top poster on his forum, no hate for the guy. But at the PWG show in UK, AJ was just too predictable. I knew what move he was going to hit pretty much all the time. This is because he uses all his great spots a LOT of the time overexposing them. Lost doesn't really do this, so he makes them mean something when he hits them.

Arrogance is a good team, but top notch would imply that they're having the best tag matches in PWG on a consistent basis. Yes, they did have the best match (according to SocalUncensored.com) of 2005 against Scorpio & Quicksilver, but are they having good-to-great matches on every show? It's a little on the inconsistent side, as compared to say, Super Dragon & Davey Richards.

My opinion obviously, but they're my favourite tag-team in PWG, because of their chemistry and awesome & innovative double team moves. So, that pretty much means they do entertain me a lot more than you it seems, and makes me think they do produce good-to-great matches not on every show, but most shows.

No disrespect to Dragon and Davey, as I think they're an excellent tag-team too, and I think that once they tag together for a few more months, they'll grow a lot as a tag-team. But Arrogance have already had this advantage, and it shows to me personally.

Conversely, he also at times, comes off as a poor 3rd-rate indy-level copy of Bret. This is further magnified when Chris Bosh has his own unique distinctive personality, and Scott is either playing straight-man to Chris' antics, or acting like Bret Hart. Neither time is he standing out as himself.

I don't really have a problem with this, nor have I ever spotted Bosh standing out more than Lost, maybe I need some glasses or something. I'll agree that Bosh has more of a character, but I think Lost has more charisma, which means much more in my book.
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Postby jamianity » Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:46 pm

1. Kevin Steen. This guy is just intense, his inring persona is like a machine and I can't get enough of him. For such a young guy he is amazing. I predict great things for this guy, I think TNA should pick him up as he would be an awesome face or heel.
2. Super Dragon. This guy always delivers, even his bad matches are pretty decent. The man has an aura about him that makes him special.
3. AJ Styles. Another fantastic wrestler who always seems to deliver and always bust his balls for PWG. He seems capable of having a good match with anybody and is not the spot monkey people claim he is.
4. Scorpio Sky. This guy is fucking ace, his spots are slick, his transition is brilliant and he is ace on the mic.
5. Chris Bosh. This guy is good, he still has to improve in ring but he still pretty good. However he is great at showing emotion, great at portraying his character and good at working the audience.
6. El Generico. Just watch any of his matches with Steen and see how great they are. He plays the perfect underdog and is always a pleasure to watch.
7. Joey Ryan. A true technical wizard, he is a great worker. His schmucky heel stick is also pretty good.
8. Scot Lost. A really good wrestler, and good on the mic. Not a massive fan of his singles work but his tag work is second to none, which is good as the art of tag team wrestling is often looked down upon.
9. Chris Sabin. This guy is awesome inring and is far more than justa spot monkey, just see him carry Chris Hero to an awesome match. However he does lack in the mic charisma department.
10. Quicksilver. His match at Euro vacation with Scorpio Sky was awesome. His tag wrestling is brilliant and I hope he gets a push soon as I think the Cape Fear tag team could be awesome.
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Postby Aaron » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:39 pm

1. Kevin Steen. He never fails to entertain! Very vocal and in keeping with a character, and his in-ring style all suits. On top of that, he's fucking quality.

2. Super Dragon. Very few workers "get it" quite like Dragon does. He's got a perfect grasp of all-round psychology, unique moves, believability, mystique, drawing power, and in incredible moveset suited to give anyone a great match. Dragon doesn't do bad matches.

3. Scott Lost. This man is the most underrated guy in America today. I'm a huge mark for Scott. He's crisp as you like and sticks to doing what he does well.

4. Scorpio Sky. Becoming a breakout star for sure. Bundles of charisma, and a fantastic 8-pack!!

5. Colt Cabana. He would be number one as I rate him as the Numero Uno English speaking wrestler not with WWE. Maybe it's an English thing. . . good technical wrestler to say the least mixed with top comedy. If only he had a few more high profile matches with the company.

6. Chris Hero. I mark for his stuff. Charisma, vocal, his own style. He's had great matches wherever he has gone. It's great to see PWG using him! Some knock his weak holds or whatever, I don't give a fuck because he has me engrossed in what he's doing.

7. Rocky Romero. Yeah, maybe he's not had much in PWG but what little he has he's impressive all the same. Proper strong style worker and I mark when Excalibur calls the Lady giving shades of Johnny Saint (fucking legend)

8. Davey Richards. What a treasure! When he hits the East Coast the ROHbots will cum in their pants. Twice.

9. Chris Sabin. If I'd only seen his TNA work, I'd slate him as shite. Get him out of that restrictive X-Division bollocks and he shows he can be a class act. He gives his all every time in PWG.

10= El Generico/Topgun Talwar - Topgun needs a mention because he's the top opener and arguably the number one comedy wrestler in America today. He sets the tone often for PWG from the outset. El Genrico also has the knack for getting the crowd pumped, albeit from higher up the card! Ole!

Missing from the list at a glace, instalntly, are Bosh and Ryan. Both great workers. Ryan has had two of PWG's greatest matches IMO with the Iron man and the Ladder. Bosh is worth paying to see if you give him a mic (which we didn't get in England and I was a bit gutted). That's not to mention his ability in the ring either!

Fuck Joe.
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Postby Hulkushi » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:53 pm

I MUST SEE STEEN vs. JOE

seriously
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Postby Big Joe » Thu Mar 23, 2006 6:24 am

It was good, but nothing to cream yourself over. Guerrilla warfare was alot better.
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Postby jayk359 » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:27 pm

1. ronin
2. ronin
3. ronin
4. steen


yeah i know im sorry

ps b-boy is not good
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you're all wrong

Postby freehat bonch » Mon Mar 27, 2006 1:00 am

1. el generico
2. ronin
3. disco
4. bosh
5. sky
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Postby Paul Burns » Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:49 pm

onlxn wrote:Speaking of Ronin... he's a mixed bag. Does some things really well -- his offense is really, really good -- but he works more slowly than most of the other midcarders, which makes him look bad. Also -- and this sounds like nit-picking, but I really don't think it is -- he either needs to get in better shape or change his ring gear. As a low-level American indy worker, you're just not going to be taken seriously if you have a futuristic, lucha-ish look like that and you also have a big belly. It's why Ronin almost never gets a good reaction when he first comes out -- because he looks silly but doesn't acknowledge it. He's a big, beefy white guy, and he wrestles that style well... he should dress that way, too.


Oh my god, I agree COMPLETELY. His forearms and shit is nice, but his look is freaken HORRIBLE. I notice his little belly aswell, he looks REALLY stupid and just screams at me 'I'm out of shape and am generic so I'll wear this attire to hide that' kinda thing. I dunno what he could wear, but his red attire just flat out irritates me. (And yes its nitpicking, ohwell)
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Postby onlxn » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:36 pm

Bumping this for a larf -- gonna change my rankings based on ASW3 (both on guys' performances and on the frequency with which they're now appearing). Danielson and Strong would probably be #1 and #2, but neither appears that regularly; the same is true for Shelley, Cabana and even AJ, whose appearances are becoming few and far between. Of the real regulars, I'd now put it at...

1) El Generico
2) Davey Richards
3) Super Dragon
4) Chris Hero
5) Chris Sabin
6) Scorpio Sky
7) Claudio Castagnoli
8) Kevin Steen
9) Quicksilver
10) T.J. Perkins
Honorable Mention: Scott Lost, Phoenix Star

ASW3 made it clear that Generico and Davey are really head-and-shoulders above everyone else on the regular roster. Dragon had a mediocre weekend, and I was actually tempted to put Hero over him; Steen also only looked okay. Hero's really consistently entertaining in PWG rings, as is Sabin, as is Claudio. Scorp and Quick both looked really good, and are really starting to impress me as smart, versatile workers; Scorp, in particular, is really coming on as a heel. I love T.J., and he gave excellent athletic performances, but I have to admit that his apathetic facial expressions hurt both of his matches. He'd be well-served to put the Puma mask back on. Scott looked decent in his one match, and if Phoenix stays as sharp as he was at ASW3, he'll be an easy Top Tenner.

Thoughts?
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Postby It's A Bomb » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:22 pm

Saying TJ Perkins is one of the ten best wrestlers in PWG over guys like Bosh, Quicksilver, Alex Koslov, and even Ronin is hilarious in my mind. And yes, I did say Ronin. TJ's so bland and is getting repetitive and has become less entertaining lately. Ronin has a neat style and is pretty entertaining, and while he might not be the most charasmatic person on the roster, he gets crowds into matches by being a dick or getting called "Hell Kitty"(which is still a stupid chant) by people.
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Postby onlxn » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:18 pm

It's A Bomb wrote:Saying TJ Perkins is one of the ten best wrestlers in PWG over guys like Bosh, Quicksilver, Alex Koslov, and even Ronin is hilarious in my mind.

Well, if you're talking to me... I have Quick rated higher than T.J. I love Bosh, but he's been a bit sloppy lately. And he really gets hurt an awful lot -- it's unfortunate, but I think it also reflects poorly on his style. There are plenty of guys on the roster who are as stiff and high-impact on him and don't get hurt; he hasn't mastered that yet. I really dig Koslov, and while I personally haven't seen enough of him to be sure yet, I could definitely see the argument for putting him over T.J.

Ronin has a neat style and is pretty entertaining, and while he might not be the most charasmatic person on the roster, he gets crowds into matches by being a dick or getting called "Hell Kitty"(which is still a stupid chant) by people.

Ronin gets a lot of heat for having a really terrible look; I don't really think that's to his credit as a worker.

I do like Ronin, and I think he does a lot of things well, but he's not a great seller and his matches are reeeeaaaaallly slow. You're right that T.J. hasn't been all that interesting lately (though I think he and Rocky will bring their A-games next show), but I still think he's a level above Ronin.
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Postby astro_zombie » Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:40 am

i think ronin is very underrated. i like most of his matches (but i have bad taste anyway, so who cares?).

also, i like PUMA more than i like ronin.
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